14c28n steel vs d2 14c28n steel vs d2

420HC doesnt hold an edge well, but its relatively stain-resistant and tough. 14C28N steel is not very hard steel which makes it easier to sharpen. Is Vancron SuperClean a good choice for a chef knife? 0.62% of Carbon: Makes knives harder and more resistant. It is certainly possible for a knifemaker or heat treating company to do a heat treatment that will have suboptimal properties. See the chart below showing 52100 steel that was overaustenitized (unintentionally) by a knifemaker that sent me specimens for toughness testing. I also have a video that summarizes some of the information below while also showing how some of the experiments work. I have a Spyderco K390 knife and I cut leather with it as it is only .090 thick and I seldom have to strop it on 1 micron diamond compound on leather. Theres still a lot of misinformation being pushed by influencers especially in knife steel rankings. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. how much more can you bend/pry with it? 14C28N steel also has excellent wear resistance due to its high chromium content. I was just comparing AEB-L and 14c28n to decide which steel to get for my next knife project and although 14c28n seems to be a bit more abrasion resistant, my primary goal is toughness and edge stability. Dr. Thomas is a friend of ours here at Blade HQ, and with his help, weve worked to create this knife steel guide. LC200N has similar properties to those two but with saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. S90V VG-10 steel also has the same level of toughness as 14C28N and the same level of corrosion resistance. These steels are best for knives that dont see impacts and are some of the most difficult to sharpen. For example, below is a video comparing a 1095 ESEE knife at 55-57 Rc and a MagnaCut knife at 62.5 Rc, both with the same edge angle. The big difference in properties vs the low alloy steels, however, are the harder carbides that are found in these steels. there seems to be an optimal procedure for every alloy (provided its heat treated to industial standards). This was not necessarily because of superior toughness but because of the superior strength of the MagnaCut from higher hardness. Its not a regression line, it is just a line through the best steels. But a few overly vocal forgers were making claims about it that clearly were not true especially when comparing it to 5160. Its found on a large number of traditional-style folders. The hardenable grade of titanium (Beta C Titanium) reaches up to 45 or so rc. This is about comparing steels to each other rather than a limitation of an individual steel. GiantMouse Vox/Anso ACE Iona Liner Lock Knife, Muley Freaks Erik Van Woerkom Charged With Felony Possession of Trophy Mule Deer, The Biggest Improvement to My Camp Kitchen Is a Mini Pizza Oven (But Not for Pizza), Propane Traeger, Moosejaw Coolers, Hybrid HOKAs, Adventure Chess, and More Emerging Gear, Avalanche Outside British Columbia Resort Buries 10, Kills 3 Heli-Skiers, Netflix Unveils First Trailer for Tour de France Series. Been here before? The hardness level of steel is determined using a universal scale called the "Rockwell C Test", commonly called the Rockwell hardness scale (HRC). I would think that the label applies to either the line or the outlier, but probably not both unless the outlier is a measurement error. then you have zirconia and diamond coated blades. Mid-Range Steels 154CM D2 N690 VG-10 CTS BD1N 14C28N A2 1095 O1 H1 Budget Steels 440C CTS-BD1 440A 420 8Cr13MoV AUS-8 The Steels Should you continue to scroll further, you may find yourself lost in a seemingly endless list of knife steel wealth and knowledge. Manage Settings I have a few examples below for steels that I have ranges of hardness tested for both toughness and edge retention. Are you familiar with anything similar on the metallurgy/knife steel side of things? Diamond and CBN stones make sharpening those steels easier. Some steels are cooked up specifically with this in mind and are very difficult to make rust. This is a non-powder steel produced by American steel company Carpenter. Obviously Ill let you check the manuscript prior to publication. Therefore, ensure to wash and dry your knives after use to keep the rust away. What it is: D2 is a carbon tool steel with a relatively high chromium content, prompting some to call it a "semi-stainless" steel. This is basically a retrofit of a very old steel, adding more carbon to the recipe of 420 (hence the HC for high carbon). Wear resistance comes from hardness and carbides, hard particles formed between carbon and another element like Vanadium or Tungsten. Is there a reason SG2/R2 are not included in the lineup, despite being one of the most popular ones? D2 is mainly considered decent budget steel that comes with better edge retention than the 14C28N. 14C28N Vs D2 . These are Chinese-produced steels that recently started showing up in Chinese-made knives. Almost all of the knives in my EDC rotation are Spydercos, in exotic steels. The brand designed it as a carbide replacement. This doesnt necessarily mean they have terrible toughness, but they have limitations. In thick forms, like a fixed blade, 1095 isa tough, low-cost steel. Thanks again for everything you're doing, it's a tremendous resource. third and most important is what happened to the burr. It does have chromium but is not as sufficient as required to be a type of stainless steel. Thanks to its very high hardness (64-66 HRc compared to the average of 58-62 HRc), ZDP-189 can be ground thinner and sharpened less often. The biggest change that is seen with powder metallurgy in measured properties is in regards to toughness. Like S90V, its a high-hardness steel, but its more balanced than S90V. The value being slightly different doesnt mean its an outlier or measurement error. On the flip side D2 steel is much harder than other steels in this category such as 154CM or ATS-34 and as a result holds its edge a little better. If you want a sharp knife for outdoor or indoor use, D2 knives will not disappoint you. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. The stainless steel rating. If thats true why do you include it in the stainless steel category? Its not bad, but you can find better in the market at the same price. Many steel ratings seem to over-emphasize edge retention. Vanadium carbides are among the hardest that form in steel, and chromium carbides are in between iron carbide and vanadium carbide. In use, its very similar to 440C and VG-10. Plus the charts get messier, and I dont always have data for a wide range of hardness values. It has a lower hardness and edge retention as compared to the 9Cr knife. 1095 stains easily and thus is often coated, especially in fixed blades. However, it is not really known how many different companies are making 8Cr13MoV (or at least I dont know), it could be that it is one manufacturer that is dominating the market. at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. Sign up to receive GearJunkie content direct to your inbox. Here, we will discuss edge retention, toughness, ease of sharpening, and corrosion resistance. Each of these contributes to a knifes overall performance. Poor heat treatment can make a knife too hard, too soft, hard to sharpen, easy to deform, or cause other issues. Among Vancron SuperClean, Agomi #1 and Shirogami #1, Which one tends to have finer grain size and Sharper edge? im led to believe tha the melting procedure is more important with these steels than the exact composition. D2 is not a bad steel, but it has been around a long time and is somewhat mundane by current standards. The hardness of the carbides does not matter much unlike with edge retention. The steel is similar to Sandviks 13C26. [Steel Knife Review], Best survival knife sword: 5160 steel Review, What is VG 10 pocket knife? I made most of my leather knives from O1v (O1 with .20V) that I hold at 1475 for 15 mins and quench in 120-130 F AAA oil and Kevin Cashen is where those parameters came from btw. Lets talk about the clip-on pocket knife. Generally seen as a slight upgrade to the 440C/VG-10/ATS-34 caliber of steel, its a decent all-around steel with good corrosion resistance, decent toughness, and only modest hardness. The Kershaw Leek is a most popular EDC knife that design by legendary custom knife maker Ken Onion. the following is not a critique, just a few thoughts to maybe put the relationships into a wider perspective and point to additional dimensions. It has an HRc over 70, usually even harder than Maxamet. What would you rate the toughness of CPM-D2. 1. 14c28n steel has a high Chromium and Carbon percentage. Or is this an argument that tends to be rooted more in the presumption that Japanese steel > Chinese steel than any practical difference in reality? In general, the more carbide the steel has and the larger the carbides the lower is the toughness. My test is for comparing different steels, not necessarily for a go/no go test for saltwater applications. The unique process used to make LC 200N results in a fine-grain structure. And while it can be hard depending on the heat treat, I have found it easily chips, causing microscopic dings in the edge when hardened to a high level on a thin blade. Continue with Recommended Cookies. Read more. The best steels with balanced properties include 4V/Vanadis4E, CPM-CruWear, and CPM-M4. Elmax With toughness it is a bit harder to link to only one article as I dont really have a summary of all of the toughness testing that we have done. It also tops out around 60-61 Rc like LC200N and needs relatively careful heat treating to even be that hard. Thank you for putting this together, incredibly useful! drop point There are a lot of different types of steel out there . Very much appreciate you. For example, D2 has enough chromium to be stainless (~12%) but its high carbon means that too much chromium carbide is formed to leave enough chromium for stainless levels of corrosion resistance. and our CROMOVA This refers to the angle of your edge and the thickness of the knife behind the edge. 14C28N VS D2 The two sheets of steel are comparable in terms of toughness and corrosion resistance. Vanax and LC200N are unique in reaching 59-60 Rc while being very stain resistant. He is the mind and writer behind Knife Steel Nerds, the go-to source for all knowledge about knife steel. . I did a large study of different knives with identical sharpening and edge geometry. 14C28N Even though it has very high hardness, its also still decently resistant to corrosion and quite tough. Its OK to be a steel snob, but keep in mind that you dont have to if you want a good knife. The Sandvik 14C28N has a very thin and sharp blade that is perfect for slicing through things. Its not a particularly great cutter, being poor at retaining an edge. The steel loses some of the chromium in solution for corrosion resistance to form these fine carbides for hardness. Its an anomaly in the knife world and quite puzzling to use. Most vintage tool blades seem to have been made of 1084/1095 or similar, presumably at some <60 Rc hardness that gave the required toughness, and the rules of thumb for sharpening angles are based on those assumptions. Therefore, if your priority is a knife with the best toughness on the market, you can never go wrong with the varieties of 14C28N. Steels high in toughness are excellent for knives likely to see hard impacts, like large chopping knives. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. A European powder-metal steel used in higher-end knives, Elmax has an advanced formula, and the result is a very good all-around steel, a generation ahead of formulations like 154CM. vanax That way you can get into the steel ratings quickly. These two knives are a little bit more than a pretty face. There is buzz out there but I havent seen anything solid yet in the world of steel. The heat treatment techniques used by the manufacturer as well as the design of the blade itself play a huge role in the ultimate outcome of knife performance! This is especially important for chopping knives and for knives with thin edges for enhanced cutting ability and edge retention. So the major tradeoff is in how much carbide you want in the steel for edge retention without dropping toughness too much for the intended knife and user. Another is that 8Cr13MoV is a generic name for a specific composition while AUS-8 is a name of a product by a specific company. They have many similarities, including their high hardness, strength, and wear resistance. For more information see our. Could you please compare it to Shirogami #1 and Agomi #1, I didnt find anything in terms of grain size ragarding thoese steels on the Internert. I have two quick questions, Other factors that can be added in are corrosion resistance, hardness, and cost. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/17/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-3/. There has been some internet controversy over the grinding and heat treat of this steel. EDGE RETENTION . There are also hardness/toughness and hardness/TCC charts.but no tables backing this charts. By that I dont mean that a better heat treatment is not possible, but that major mistakes in heat treating are avoided. 440C steel The edge retention numbers are normalized to the hardness of the closest toughness test. and yet millons of knives are being made out of 1.4116 (aisi 420mov?) As a side note, pure tungsten carbide blades (from brands like Sandrin) can have very high levels of edge retention, but they are not made of steel. Did you change the estimate based on more testing? Theres a green triangle at about RC 60.5 and toughness over 40. This is a powder-metal steel also produced by Crucible. Steels that are higher in hardness and wear resistance are usually lower in toughness. The chart below has dotted lines which indicate the average effect of hardness for any given steel. document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. At the end of the article I gave a list of reasons why I hadnt made my own ratings chart, two big reasons were: 1) I didnt yet have articles explaining what edge retention and toughness even is (this was early on in Knife Steel Nerds), 2) I didnt have good experimental numbers on many steels. CPM-3V is a powder metallurgy contender in this category. The D2, on the other hand, has a thicker and more durable blade that is better suited for tough tasks like chopping wood or prying open cans. I would like to see the rating and performance on test of the Chinese Steels, that some people use to say its cheap garbage, like 3Cr13MoV, 4Cr13, 4Cr13Mo, 4Cr14MoV, 5Cr15MoV, 6Cr13MoV, 7Cr17MoV, 8Cr13MoV, 9Cr13MoVCo, 9Cr18MoV, 9Cr19MoV, and the 14cr14MovNB to see if they are similar, worse or better than the steels that they copyi believe we gonna have some good unexpected results. This can turn the ultra corrosion resistant LC200N or Vanax into a normal stainless steel that will rust with only 1% saltwater. Therefore, you cannot purchase the knife for use in corrosive environments. 14C28N steel is known to offer among the best if not the best toughness in knife steels out there. 14C28N and D2 steel are not the same. 14C28N vs. D2. It would be interesting to try to develop a conversation between /geometry/edge retention/toughness, so we could say e.g. Each test is done with 3 or more specimens to get a good average. What is pulling that line high and to the right? This is an American-made powder steel produced by Crucible and developed specifically for knives with the aid of the knife guru Chris Reeve (maker of the vaunted Sebenza, among other gems). 14C28N is thus ideal for use in corrosive environments and challenging applications. Read our full Sobata 398 review here. 440B